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Waterboarding - Saved American Lives? Case Closed.

December 12, 2007

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Many weak-kneed Senators - mostly Democrats and a few of the usual Republicans sprinkled in - appear to be ready to vote the use of waterboarding out of existence as an infrequently used (albeit highly successful) method of getting useful intelligence. While many define waterboarding as torture, libNOT.com agrees with those that wish to reserve the right to use this form of interrogation and state emphatically that it is not torture.

Senator John McCain, a staunch opponent of waterboarding declaring it torture, has the respect of libNOT.com….actually more respect for him because of his personal experience of being a victim of numerous methods of torture. But, where we disagree is based on the fact that waterboarding is not at all similar to being suspended off the ground with your arms tied up behind you, fingernails pulled out, or amputation of limbs, etc. Waterboarding gives one the sense of drowning and is extremely uncomfortable. No blood. No broken bones. No missing body parts. Torture? Not!

CNSNews.com has an article reporting quotes of several Senators which can be viewed below. The authors, Fred Lucas and Josiah Ryan have also included some brief audio clips of Senators’ comments.


Some Senators Wary of Waterboarding, Even to Save Lives
By Fred Lucas and Josiah Ryan
CNSNews.com Correspondents
December 12, 2007

On the Spot (CNSNews.com) - With a vote pending to restrict the interrogation techniques of the Central Intelligence Agency, many senators were non-committal Tuesday on whether they would agree to outlaw waterboarding after a former CIA officer said the method of simulated drowning helped save American lives.

Former CIA agent John Kiriakou told ABC News and The Washington Post that the waterboarding of terrorist Abu Zubayda “probably saved lives,” although Kiriakou did not participate in the waterboarding and does not support its use.

“Obviously, waterboarding is a rough, to put it mildly, technique,” Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) told Cybercast News Service. “The question is, what would you do if you thought it could gather information that would stop an imminent terrorist attack? How do you provide a system and how do you write a law that provides proper standards for doing that? I want to think about it more. It’s a question I haven’t resolved absolutely.” (Hear Lieberman Audio)

Last week, after three hours of closed-door debate, the House and Senate intelligence committees agreed on a proposal requiring interrogators working for U.S. intelligence agencies to abide by the Army Field Manual. It prohibits coercive methods such as waterboarding, and other methods that might be perceived as torture. The bill now must be considered by the full House and Senate.

With waterboarding, the person being interrogated is placed on the floor with his head at a downward incline, and a sheet of plastic or cloth is draped over his head. Then water is poured over his head, which simulates drowning. The technique does not produce long-term physical effects, and the practice is considered very effective in eliciting information from captives.

Zayn Abiden Muhammed Hussein Abu Zubaydah was the first high-ranking al Qaeda member captured after 9/11. Kiriakou said Abu Zubaydah cracked after 35 seconds of waterboarding and provided information that “probably saved lives.”

Despite that, some senators refused to waiver in their opposition to waterboarding.

Sen. Tom Carper (D-Del.) would not directly answer whether waterboarding was justified in the case of Abu Zubahdah, but said: “Nothing comes to my mind at this moment to suggest that it is” justifiable.

“Most of the people I have talked to who conduct interrogations for a living suggest that the more effective approach to getting information from a prisoner is not to torture him nor to waterboard,” Carper told Cybercast News Service. (Hear Carper Audio)

Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-Maine) held firm that waterboarding is not acceptable even in the case of Abu Zubaydah. Pressed about whether waterboarding is ever appropriate, even to prevent another 9/11, Snowe replied, “Waterboarding is torture and should not be the policy of the United Sates.” a href=”/ul /ulnone “(Hear Snowe Audio)

Asked again if it would ever be justified, she said, “I gave my answer.”

Sen. Christopher “Kit” Bond (R-Mo.), the ranking member of the Senate intelligence committee, opposes the proposal to ban waterboarding because he believes it would be informing terrorists of the interrogation techniques used by the United States.

“It’s important that the CIA have its own program, which is not disclosed to the terrorists,” Bond told Cybercast News Service. (Hear Bond Audio)

But other methods of obtaining information from terrorists must be available, said Sen. Frank Lautenburg (D-N.J.), methods that would not diminish the United States’ moral standing in the world.

“There are other ways to get information that ought to be employed,” Lautenburg told Cybercast News Service. “One thing that overrides all other decisions is, what we give is what we get. We have to have a moral stand on these issues to protect ourselves.” (Hear Lautenburg Audio)

Asked to comment directly on the CIA officer who said waterboarding probably saved lives in the abu Zubaida situation, Lautenburg said, “We don’t want to ever risk American lives. But that also doesn’t say there was no other way to get this [information]. So you have to examine all the possibilities.”

Members of the Senate Judiciary Committee disagreed on the matter during interviews Tuesday. Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas) objects to the proposal to outlaw waterboarding and other aggressive interrogation techniques. His colleague on the committee, Sen. Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) told Cybercast News Service that he supported the ban.

Other senators declined to comment on the matter. However, Sen. Mark Pryor (D-Ark.) said he still lacked knowledge on the issue.

“I’ll just have to look at it,” Pryor said in an interview. “Generally speaking, waterboarding is not justified. It’s torture. However, there is a story in this morning’s Washington Post that someone’s saying he feels like it did lead to preventing further terrorism. … I don’t know enough about it. Is he talking about a specific case? I’d have to look at the specifics of what he’s saying. I can’t comment on it because I just don’t know anything about the situation.” (Hear Pryor Audio)

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